How to Increase Your Income with Sales Funnels and Automation

Chris: [00:00:00] What if I told you there was a way for you to earn more money? As a web designer where you didn't have to take on more projects or charge higher rates to clients too. Good to be true. Well, that's exactly what this week's guest did and he's telling us how he did it. Are you ready? Let's do it.

What's up everybody. Welcome to another episode of this self-made web designer podcast. It's so good to have you for a nother week of fun. Phil talks about a web design freelance business. Hey, it's a week to be thankful and I'm thankful that you're here listening. And this week's guest is Mac of funnels to income. He's got a great YouTube channel and blog and tons of courses and resources. And he's talking this week about everything that he learned while being a web designer, automating his processes so that he didn't have to customize. Every single step for each of his clients. So he could finish projects quicker.

And he's talking about sales funnels, how he developed them, what he learned and how you can implement them in your web design business as well. It's going to be a fantastic episode. Before we get started, you know I gotta ask it. Have you subscribed to this self-made web designer podcast? Have you left a review and a rating I'd love to hear from you on what you think of the show?

It will help other people find this podcast and help them out as well. Before we go any further, take a second and do that. All right. Are you ready for mr. Mack from funnels to income? All right, let's do it
Mack, thank you so much for being on the self-made web designer podcast. So good to have you.

Mak: [00:02:01] No, thanks for having me. I know we've been having a bit of a back and forth trying to schedule this, but eventually we managed to make it happen so glad to be here. I figured it out and it's going to be well worth it. So, uh, tell, tell us a little bit about yourself, about who you are, what you do, where you came from and how you got to what?

Wow. Okay. That's going to be a long one anyway. Um, I started teaching myself how to design websites about 12 years ago. And, uh, I started off with HTML CSS, uh, realized that it was a bit too difficult for me. So I moved on to Dreamweaver and that wasn't even really good at the time as well, because what you had in Dreamweaver was not exactly what you see on the web, but that's all we had, but, um, I then discovered a WordPress.

Which, uh, which was really, really good. So I started using WordPress for a bit, uh, with some, uh, templates from theme forest, and then, uh, that was quite difficult as well. But, uh, as I got more and more, yeah, confidence, I decided to set up a design agency where I designed websites for local businesses. Uh, that one to one really well.

But still, it was a challenge trying to build these websites, uh, with these templates because each templates was different. I was coded differently. And then finally I discovered Divi, which allowed me to design these websites, you know, very, very easy with templates. And, um, what happened is I was overconfident to a point where I decided to partner with a company called Groupon, where I had to, uh, discounts my.

Uh, my web design services, uh, from, um, I mean about 80%. So I got overloaded with a lot of websites to do, and it took me almost a year and a half to design all these websites. And to be honest, I got to a point where I felt like, you know, the love web design was not there anymore. So I slowly wandered down the business and then went into, uh, pretty much, uh, teaching web design online and becoming an online entrepreneur through affiliate marketing, selling courses.

And, uh, yeah, and also doing free tutorials on YouTube. So that's what I do right now.

Chris: [00:04:19] Your tutorials are how I found you. And you've got a lot of great, a lot of great free content out there. A lot of great paid content out there. So definitely want to encourage anybody listening to go check out max YouTube channel it's funnels to income, I believe, and funnels to intercom.com is your website.

So, um, talk a little bit about the strategies that you found. Were helpful in building, um, your web design agency. Did you find anything that worked better than others and how did you ultimately find the success that you were, you were going for?

Mak: [00:04:53] Yeah. Um, I think the success, uh, really came in when I decided to use, uh, Divi, because what Divi allowed me to do was to create templates and reusable blocks or sections because when you design a website, pretty much, you go through the same process. Every single time you're going to have the header. You're going to have the footer. You're going to have, you know, a specific layouts. So what I did ahead of time was to have these different types of layouts, uh, saved in my library.

So each time I created a new website, it was easy enough for me to just go in and add those things from the library to whatever website that I needed to. And then all I had to do after that was to change the colors, the fonts, but pretty much the outline of how I wanted the website to look. Was already there.
So creating templates really sped up my workflow. It made it very, very easy for me to design the websites. Like I said, as compared to before, if you're doing each website from scratch every single time, it's going to take you a long, long time. And when you run a design agency, uh, you don't want to spend too much time.

On a single website because you know, you, you gotta have, um, a specific time for each project. So the longer it takes, you're not going to be making a lot of money and you're going to be piling on even more work. So you're going to be spread out too thin. You know, from what I've seen in people that have interviewed there's, there's kind of two models.

It would be, one is kind of the high ticket model where each website is super custom. Um, you're working really closely with the client throughout the entire process. It takes three to four months to do. Um, and then there's kind of what you're talking about, where it's, it's much more about quantity. It's about, um, taking a system and building it in such that it's really efficient and you can, you can gain a lot of clients.

So that's what it sounds like you were creating for yourself with your age. Yeah, absolutely. Um, and also I think it's more of a confidence, a confidence thing. So. Uh, I did try to create these big websites, but I felt like I had to go through so many hoops. I'm very impatient. So sometimes, uh, when you're about to close a deal and you'd taste taking weeks because it has to be approved, uh, through the company.

I just thought like, you know, very, um, Uh, nervous and frustrated at the same time, because I'd really wanted those to be signed off quickly. So I decided to focus on the small businesses and this is where I was gaining more success because it was an easy sale because you'd go to a company and just, uh, give them the value proposition and what.

They need to expect from your services and those were easier to sign off. So that's the strategy that I took the diversity of opportunities for, for ways to get clients in ways to, to build an agency or, or build a web design company. And, um, it sounds like you really dialed in. Exactly who you were going after in the best way to serve them.

Chris: [00:08:00] So what did that process look like to discover like, this is my ideal client. This is what serves them best. Were there any bumps in the road along the way to kind of getting to that point of realization of like, yes, this is, this is how I operate best. Here's my skills and my talents. And here's how I can offer that in such a way that people are attracted to it.

Mak: [00:08:22] When it comes to, uh, having a design agencies, sometimes it's, it's, you know, you can't avoid to think, okay, I'm going to design websites for everybody.

So that's what I used to think. And to be honest, that strategy doesn't work. Although it may seem like that's the best way to do it. So I learned that the hard way, because it was very difficult for me to approach a company and say, look, um, I designed websites, but. I can design websites pretty much for, you know, for anyone.

But the strategy that I deployed later on was to specifically targets. Websites or companies in the security industry. So I became the guy that's building those websites for companies in the security industry. So for anyone who out there who is trying to design an AI, or to try to create an agency, uh, it's best to go for a specific niche.

So for example, you can go for, let's say doctors and just design websites for, uh, for doctors or dentists or, you know, like specific niches, because if you become a Jack of all trades, you're going to find it very difficult to get a lot of work. I know it sounds crazy, but that's my experience and that's what I had to learn.
The hard way you really have to niche and find a specific, um, a group of, um, or an industry where you become the best guy or at least known for designing web websites in those industries. So that's what works.

Chris: [00:09:58] So how did you stumble upon the security industry? Was that, did you just happen to build a few websites in that genre and then kind of carried that out? Or was that like a specific, like I'm going after these types of businesses? What did that process look like?

Mak: [00:10:13] That naturally came through. So when I was designing these websites, um, what I did on the side as well was to teach web design. So in one of my classes, uh, there was a gentleman, uh, in the class who approached me and said, look, would you like to study business, uh, in the security industry, you just design a specific website for us, like a directory.

And because he had contacts in the security industry, he, uh, we then merged that way. So he'll bring. The business through his contacts and I'll just basically maintain the actual website. So through that, I guess I got to know quite a lot of people in that industry, and that is how I just became, right.

You know, creative Astro, we just focus on, uh, websites. And solutions for companies in the security industry. So that's how it came about. So many people talk to it, have a similar story of, of it's all about relationships. It's all about making contacts and, and going out and having conversations and, or, or doing something like having a course or, or doing a podcast or doing a blog where you're connecting with somebody. And that just leads to bigger and bigger things.

Chris: [00:11:25] And I'm sure. As you were teaching that web design class, you probably never thought this is going to be an inroad into a niche that's going to help me become incredibly successful over the long.

Mak: [00:11:35] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. There's no way out of thought that I would out of met him and also for anyone trying to, uh, become a freelancer or, uh, set up a design agency.

It's highly recommended that you do a lot of networking. It could be maybe with your local chamber of commerce and just go to those meetings where you, you are likely going to find people that are going to need your services. Because if you don't have a way to, uh, to tell people out there that this is what you do, it's a challenge.

And like you say, I wouldn't have known, you know, um, that, um, this gentleman I ended up, uh, we ended up becoming my business partner would, uh, Bring this opportunity to me. So it was, you know, it was really, really exciting.

Chris: [00:12:24] I want to take a second and tell you a bout a free course that I have available at self-made web designer.com. Over 1000 people have been through this course, and I am talking about the web designer. Starter kit course, I map out in four videos that you get through email, all the steps that I took to get to where I am as a web designer.

And I went from knowing absolutely nothing. I was clueless to in two years, doubling my income with a freelance web design side hustle. I made this because I know you can be successful. Doing the same thing. And the web designer starter kit course is the first step for you on your journey to being a successful thriving, freelance web designer or having a full-time career.

So I can't wait for you to check it out, go to self-made web designer.com and sign up, today.

Talk a little bit, you know, about automation and the systems that you create.

Mak: [00:13:37] I needed to kind of keep that workflow real efficient. And I know you've got a lot of great courses on automation, um, everything from, um, you know, newsletter marketing to, uh, all sorts of stuff.

Chris: [00:13:51] So what did that look like when somebody hit your website? What did, what did that process entail in, you know, how did you fine tune it along the way to become successful?

Mak: [00:14:00] Right. So, uh, the reason why I, uh, started focusing on automation was because I was pretty much a one man band then later on, uh, as work was getting, um, on, there was more demand on work.

I ended up having these apprentices that were helping me, but still I found that I was spent so much time trying to, um, Go through emails and, uh, contracts and updates on the websites. So I had to create a system where it would make it easier for me to manage all of this. So I started off with base camp.
So base camp is where, uh, each client had their own login, so they can send all their updates that they needed for the website and all the deliverables, like images, videos, and so on. But on the actual website itself on my, uh, creative Astro website, I would have specific forms that pretty much would ask.

Most of the questions that I need. And, uh, when those emails now were sent to me, I would know exactly what is going on. So that saved me a lot of time because, uh, before I used to call his clients and go through all these questions. So I would definitely find ways to really make that system much, much better.
So that improved my, uh, you know, my automation. And even now with my system, that I've built my systems that I've built. It's. Uh, it's mostly automation now that I'm really excited about. So yeah, that's how it all started. Walk through the process. So a client comes to your website, um, they like what they're seeing, what do they do next?

Chris: [00:15:39] Do they fill out a form? And that form goes to convert kit or what's the process.

Mak: [00:15:43] Okay. So, um, the form basically has like a questionnaire. Of, uh, what the client wants. Do you want an e-commerce website? Do you want just a basic websites? You want to have a lead generation on it? Uh, is he going to be, um, selling things online and so on?

So they go through all of that and that form now is connected to ConvertKit as well. And when they go to convert kit, they will be tagged. So let's say, uh, they're most likely going to be someone who is interested in say, woo commerce. I would have these tags for, for these different options of what they fill in on that form.

So when I send an automated email now, so after they fill in that form, I will send an automated email to say, Hey, thank you for, uh, uh, filling in the form. Uh, I'll be back and discuss for the, uh, information about your site and your project. So that will be an automated email. Now, before I would have to tag that email out each and every time, you know? So now I would have these emails that will be sent out automatically. So, what I'll then do is when I take a look at those, um, at those emails, then my followup emails would be emails with how to sign up onto base camp and, uh, the registration process. And pretty much after that, I could, I could send like automated emails in an, uh, in an ultra responder saying what's going to happen in the next couple of days.

So as you can see, now, these emails are in an autoresponder responder, which means. Uh, one every other day would be sent, uh, until I'm ready to start with the project. So that's how I'd set them all up. So all of that is automated and hours using convert kit for that. And, uh, for the actual form, uh, it can use Divi forms.

Uh, they, the module in in Divi that allows you to set all these, uh, all these different options and also conditional logic on these forms. So that works really well as well. That's fantastic. And you know, essentially what you're talking about is a sales funnel, which isn't something that we've really, um, dove into on this, this podcast.

Um, and, and something that I think is, is super beneficial for anybody who's building a business in any type of business, it could be a web design business. It could be, um, E-commerce it could be, you know, security business. Um, so, so talk about the, the process of creating those sales funnels, because I'm sure there was some testing you looked at what was working and what didn't work.

Was there any methodology that you found worked better than another? So like three emails versus four or, or whatever? Like what did that look like for? So when it comes to, um, The sales funnels, uh, in the business itself, I wasn't really using a sales funnels per se, because towards the end in the business, I got so much work to do to a point where I did not apply them.

But currently now on funnels to income, I was testing a few processes and I can tell you right now, if you're running a, um, an online business and you sell and you sell something. If you don't have sales funnels, you are definitely leaving money on the table because this really, really works. Now I'll give you a quick example of how this works.

So let's say you sell two products on your website. Let's say you sell two courses. It can be anything by the way. So let's say product a. Uh, the person comes to your sides. They byproduct Bay. Now they could either just buy and go to the checkout and that's it done, but it costs so much to get someone to buy a product on your website.

So if it costs that much, You might as well, just, uh, give them an offer or an upsell to something else that you sell on your site while they're there through that checkout process. So that's where I found it was very, very powerful. At first I was very skeptical because I didn't think that works, but.
When I started looking at the figures, this is why I realized, wow, this is huge. So there are options now in WordPress, where we can use services like cart flows, which makes it very, very easy for us to sell, to set up sales funnels. And this is just as good as. Even better than ClickFunnels, you know? So yeah, this is very, very powerful.

So for anyone that's selling any, any services or products online sales funnels has really, really changed my business. Yeah.

Chris: [00:20:32] And it's something, you know, especially as web designers, I don't think we think about that very much. Like we think we're, we're selling a website. This is all we have to offer.

And once we're done with that, then we're done with the projects. Never, never to hear from the client or customer again. Um, There's a great book called psychology for designers by a guy named Joe leech. And he talks about this idea with e-commerce sites and helping clients, um, build e-commerce sites that isn't, they're not just selling them the product that they came to look for, but it's, you know, it's, it's the, it's the, all this stuff that people sell in grocery stores when you're checking out, you know, it's the gum it's, it's the candy.

It's. The bottle of water, it's the magazine. But for us, it's, it's, you know, a upsale, a branding package up-sale um, and Instagram package where the things on their website look like some templates for Instagram posts that the clients can use, or it's, you know, a monthly maintenance package, which we've, we've talked about here on the podcast before, but, but trying to be creative.

So that you're not doubling or tripling your work to think like, what else do I have to offer? And I think maybe for people who are just getting started, um, that can be a bit tricky because they're just trying to learn like, like you were, how to use Divi, you know, like how do I figure out WordPress, let alone offer something else.

You know, but as you're going, and as you're learning to think of what is it, that's a side service that I can offer. I often have clients who are reaching out to me and they're like, by the way, do you do this? You know, And I'm like, I don't know why. I didn't think to offer that myself, that they had to use their own brainpower to figure out how to get me to sell something else to them.

Mak: [00:22:27] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And to be honest, I think this is, uh, something that, um, A lot of people are really missing, especially when they're going into a design, uh, designing websites for clients like Zen agencies or freelancers, because there's a video I created where I was talking about, okay, you've designed the website now what right now basically, well, where I was trying to get with that was, you know, gone are the days and I'm sure Chris, you know, this.

You know, nowadays it's so difficult to rank a website through SEO. I mean, it's almost impossible. So the idea now is if you're going to create a website, right, just a five-page website home about us services, contact, and so on, these websites are not really going to rank. So you have to have some sort of a system on that website for your client, for them to at least see some results.

For example, you can do something as basic as. Lead generation, like just have a form and all this automated, by the way, just to have a login form or a form where let's say it's a restaurant. So the opt-in could be, uh, get 10% off on your first order, right. Lead your name and email address. So the reason why you would have that list.

Uh, of, um, of, uh, leads is because let's say calm black Friday, you can just email that list for other offers. It could be Valentine's, it could be, you know, black Friday, it could be whatever, you know, so this is how you can help these businesses generate even more money. And it's not just the, uh, the email often.
It's also, uh, trying to create, uh, these, um, these funnels on these, uh, on these websites, like you've mentioned. And, uh, this was that, that was a great example. So if you're a web designer, don't just end on just the web design itself, you could add extra stuff, like, look, uh, I can, um, maintain your website and updated for an extra $40 a month.

Right. But if you sign up now, uh, I'll do a 10% off. Chances are, you know, they're going to take you up on that, you know, but that's something that originally you would have left, you know what I mean? But now by adding that onto your funnel, this is something that's going to, you know, generate you money along the way.

So this is a new way that we really need to think about designing these websites for our clients. And even for ourselves, you know, it's very, very important that we think along those ways.

Chris: [00:25:03] I think it's important to, to realize that this is, this is something clients are looking for, regardless of whether or not you're offering it to them.

And so, you know, I think there's a lot of good folks out there who feel weird about the idea of. Upselling, you know, like even that term makes them feel funny and they're like, I don't want to be a car salesman. I don't want to be the guy who's always trying to sell you something. But the reality is is that people who are coming to build websites are not just building websites.

They're building a business, you know, they're, they're building an organization, so they need much more than a website to be successful. And in my experience, if a client likes working with you, they're going to prefer to hire you for other things. They're going to prefer to, to go to you because they know like, and trust you already versus go and vet somebody else to do something else for their business.

And then they've got to potentially go to a hundred different people to try to figure out all of these different things that they don't even want to mess with, versus if they can just come to you, um, to, to figure out like all of these things. And I think there's a, there's probably a, a line there, like you don't want to do EV like you were saying, you don't want to be everything for everybody. Um, but, but you do want to figure out in my niche, how can I serve my clients the best way that I can?

Mak: [00:26:28] Oh, absolutely. Because if you really think about it, uh, and I agree with you, Chris, I mean, these clients, they want a solution, so they may be good ads. Let's say it's, uh, it's a local bakery. They may be very good at baking, but really running the business.

This is where now, uh, this can be filled in by the web designer. So you want to be able to go in and. Um, pitch all these ideas that help that small business to either generate leads or make more money. And anytime you go pitch this idea, there's no business owner. That's going to take you down. I mean, turn you down.

I mean, everyone wants to generate more leads and make more money and how you make more money. You got to have some sort of system on the website that helps you do that. And we see all these upsells everywhere, but we don't see them as upsells. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people use Amazon, right? When you buy something on Amazon, like you buy this microphone, right.

You can just see a suggestion where they say, Oh, well, more people that bought this microphone also boards. This mixer or, or this item, that's just generally an upsell, you know? So they try to, to, uh, to buy even more products based on the product that you've just bought. I mean, it's not tingling, upsell, but it's showing you other options that you can go for.

And pretty much, this is what we're trying to replicate. Although it's a, like discounts on one of your services if they purchase that time. And also behind the scenes, just to send some emails with case studies to say, Hey, you know what? I worked with this company, it does this, this, this, this, this, and this is how much I've managed to help them out uh, would you like to try this out with me? All these can be automated emails that can be in your autoresponder as well.

Chris: [00:28:18] At the end of the day, you know, especially when you're just getting started, like say with the microphone, you know, you don't even, you don't even know you need a cable and a microphone stand and you need an audio interface.

And so this is actually like you're doing, you're doing the client, a service to offer these additional things. Um, and, and help them become more successful because ultimately that's what it's about. It's about helping businesses be more successful with what you know, how to do, you know, like it's not, it could be anything, it could be websites, it could be marketing, it could be videos, it could be all of that stuff.

So, uh, Mack I've loved this conversation, um, for anybody that is out there, just wanting to know how to get in touch with you and how to connect with you online, where would they go?

Mak: [00:29:09] Right. So, um, my main channels are my YouTube channel, which is, um, Youtube.com. I think it's forward slash graphics TV.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to change that name because that's how I originally started with it. But if you search for Mak on YouTube, uh, pretty much you'll be able to see my, uh, tutorials. And also my main website is, uh, funnels to income.com. I also give away a free WordPress course, a course on there.

So. Uh, sign up for it and it's absolutely free. And I also have some paid courses as well. So those are the two places that we can find me. Yeah. Well, just one final question.

Chris: [00:29:50] Before I let you go for someone out there, who's trying to build a web design business and is struggling to get it off the ground. What would your encouragement,

Mak: [00:29:58] What I would say is first of all, you have to, uh, You have to network, this applies both on the ground and also online. So you've got to have a blog or if you can, uh, if you're good with video, try and create a lot of videos where you talk about your work. Uh, you can, you also have interviews with, um, Some of your clients do some case studies.

This is how you get people to know who you are, and this is how they can end up, you know, liking you and trusting you. So it's important that you, you create that. Secondly, you got to have some tools ready for you. For each project that you are, go ahead and do. For example, you have to have a page builder.
It doesn't have to be a specific one, any page builder that you're comfortable with in my case, it's Divi. So that's, you know, like something that I always have. And then you also want to have things like, um, your. Membership software or your lead generation software, your email auto responders. So these are the sorts of tools that you need to master and make sure you're good at using, because these are the tools that you want to be suggesting to your, um, your clients.

So having your tools ready and also, uh, doing a lot of networking, I would say these are the two main things that you really, really want to have, uh, to have a successful business. Well, thanks again so much. And of course, uh, for all of you listening, Mack has some great courses on funnels to income.com that outlines how to use all of those things.

Chris: [00:31:30] And I highly recommend that you go check those out Mac. Thanks again. Hope to have you on again in the future and just hear an update from yeah,

Mak: [00:31:38] Chris any time. Thanks for having me really appreciate it.

Chris: [00:31:41] I love the simplicity of taking something that you are already doing and figuring out how to make more money from it without adding a ton of more work for you.

That's the dream. Right? And the cool thing is, is that it is possible. So this next week, figure out how to add on services to your web design projects that you can. Up sell to clients without adding a ton more effort on your part of things, it'll help you grow. It'll help encourage you. And it'll give you more time to do the things that you love, which at the end of the day, that's a huge part of why we build a freelance web design business.

Well, next week, we're going to have another great episode. It's going to be fantastic. You're not gonna want it. To miss it. So until then have a good week. And don't forget if you don't quit.