How to Only Work 20 Hours a Week & Make an Amazing Income
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How to Only Work 20 Hours a Week & Make an Amazing Income

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Erin Flynn is not your normal freelance web designer.

While everyone else is preaching “hustle, grind, kill yourself until you win” Erin is encouraging everyone to slow down and build a business that supports your life RATHER than the other way around.

Erin only works two to four hours a day as a freelance web designer. Okay, five hours on a busy day.

But, despite the fact that she doesn’t even come close to the traditional 40 hours per week of an average employee she is still making over six figures as a freelance web designer.

How does she do it?

Well, a few things. She’s figured out exactly the right type of client she works best with. She charges what she’s worth. BUT, more than anything, she just made a decision that she isn’t going to be a slave to her work.

Most people think that if you want to make it big as a freelance web designer you have to be willing to sacrifice all of your free time and really any kind of life you hoped to have.

But, Erin is proving to us that you can build a successful freelance web design business and still have plenty of time for things like your family and other hobbies.

Listen to this week’s episode to learn more about how she did it.

You’ll Learn

  • How to market your freelance web design business
  • How to avoid nightmare clients
  • How to earn the trust of your clients by presenting yourself as the expert
  • How to optimize your productivity and only work two to four hours a day
  • How to be your own boss
  • How to get out of a horrible job
  • How to know what to charge for your web design services
  • How to set boundaries with your freelance web design clients
  • How to learn your own natural rhythms to increase productivity
  • How to network your way into a booked calendar

Resources

Erin Flynn 0:00
You're not selling a website anymore, you're selling a solution to your client's problems. The website is just part of that. And when you communicate that you've got clients who are willing to pay a lot more, and they're willing to listen to your expertise because you're not building them a website, you're offering them a solution to their problem. And that's what they truly want.

Chris Misterek 0:24
What's up, everybody!? Welcome to another episode of this self-made web designer podcast. This week is a little bit of a landmark. I'm pretty excited about it. We just reached the 1000 download mark. You know what, let's take a second. Let's celebrate wherever you are, like just give us a clap. You know, give us a woohoo, give us a holler. Give us a holler back at your boy, whatever you want to do. But this is exciting! And it's because of you. It's because you've shown up week in, week out to listen to me and listen to the awesome guests that I have. And so you know what? It means a lot to me if you could take a second and share this with somebody that might need it. You know, the world is a little bit crazy. We've talked about that on this podcast, and people are looking for extra ways to make money and web design is one of the perfect ways to do that in this season right now because oddly enough, web design is not slowing down in the market. I have web designer friends who are busier than they have ever been. This week, we have an amazing guest with us. Her name is Erin Flynn. Here's the cool thing about Erin. Erin only works two to four hours a day max, five days a week. And from that amount of work, she's able to make over six figures a year. It's pretty inspiring, and she's gonna tell you how she does it starting right now. So happy to have Erin Flynn with us today. Erin is a web designer herself who's been freelancing since 2012. She's also got some great resources out there for all of us looking to up our game and web design or get started in the business. She has a course called Streamline Design Profit that's just absolutely fantastic. It's got a lot of content that you can go through, figure out how to get a web design freelance business going. She has her site, erinflynn.com with a ton of resources on there is a blessing to the web design community. So excited to have her on today. Erin, thank you so much for being with us.

Erin Flynn 2:42
Oh, yes. Thank you so much, Chris.

Chris Misterek 2:44
Hey, so tell us a little bit about yourself how you got into freelance web design and your journey from start to where you are now.

Erin Flynn 2:52
So it's a long story because I started in 1999, making my first website at 13 my dad took me to a Microsoft front page class, which was like the cool new thing back in those days, and I just got completely hooked. So I sold my first web site at around 17 in 2003ish. And then I kind of realized I could do that a little bit on the side during college. But I turned it into an actual business, like my actual main source of income in 2012. I had worked for some other people wasn't my thing. And so I started my own business did not quite understand all of the actual business parts that go into running a full-time business. It's different than you know, making a couple of hundred dollars here and there with a freelance gig like when you're, you know, doing something else. But in 2012 I started my business and then from there, learned a ton. And now I try to share everything that I know with other web designers and freelancers so that they can progress much more quickly than I did without making all of the mistakes that I did.

Chris Misterek 3:58
Tell us a little bit about that-- the moment when you realize like, I don't want to have a boss, I want to be my boss. Like, what was the turning point in your life?

Erin Flynn 4:07
I don't. I mean, okay, so that one job was horrible. But I've always done things like kind of crafty things or entrepreneurial things ever since I can remember. So, if any of you are familiar with Etsy, it's pretty big now. But back in the old days, like it didn't exist, so I used to make websites and I had a consignment shop online, more artists could sell their goods. And so I made my website, artists would send me their stuff, I would sell it and ship it out and do all of that. And that was to make money like in high school. So I've always just kind of had this thing where I enjoy working for myself, but I didn't realize that could make me a full-time income until I just had a horrendous job that I had to get out of, and didn't have a choice because the economy was not super great. And there weren't a whole lot of jobs out there. You know, after looking for a month, I finally was like, Oh my gosh, I don't know what I'm going to do. A friend from that horrible job was working somewhere else. And her employers needed a website. And that was kind of like, spawned to the whole, Okay, I'm gonna try and do this, like it was my actual full-time job working for myself. So it wasn't so much as I was like, I'm gonna do this. And this is what I've always wanted to do with my life. It was just kind of something I fell into but had naturally been going towards the whole time.

Chris Misterek 5:27
Got it. So it's more of like, you kind of had this sense of entrepreneurship and ownership in your regard. And then pieces kind of fell into place and it just made the most sense in that season of your life.

Erin Flynn 5:38
Totally. It seemed like by chance, but you know, maybe it was, you know, some grand design. This is what I should have always been doing.

Chris Misterek 5:48
Tell us about those first few years-- what did that look like for you as you're kind of figuring out the ropes of going out on your own for, you know, your full-time career?

Erin Flynn 5:58
Well, so I didn't quite understand how to price things properly. And so my first year in business, I was selling websites for around $500, which when I was doing it on the side, seemed like a nice chunk of money, you know, an extra 500 bucks here or there. Sounds great. When you're doing websites full time for $500 you have to do a lot of websites to make a living. And I was living in Indiana at the time, where the cost of living is much lower than where I live now. But still, like that's a lot of websites when you are looking at $500 per website. Plus, even if you're working for yourself from home, there is overhead in a business not a whole lot necessarily, but there were expenses. So after my first year in business, I only made about $12,000 which was just like, Oh my gosh, like I've made over 20 websites, I've done all of this work, you know I hustled my butt off, and I've got almost nothing to show for it. So that was a big wake up call for me in turn. I had to get not only my pricing, right, but also my work-life balance, which kind of doesn't happen but trying to like pull that into alignment too because I mean 20 plus websites a year as a lot for one person.

Chris Misterek 7:14
On your website, you promote this idea of simple success and I love this because I think right now there's, there's so much of this I don't know promotion of the grind and the hustle and you got to sweat and you got to work weekends, and you got to stay up all night. And you're kind of bumping up against this idea and it sounds like you can find success by changing your mentality to say, No, I'm not going to kill myself by trying to build this freelance business like I'm gonna make smart decisions and do smart things. So tell me a little bit about that transformation process and what you found as far as setting good boundaries in your life. What that's done for you and your business.

Erin Flynn 8:04
You know, like the whole hustle thing is like it sounds like soccer in theory, because you do have periods of hustle in your business. Like when you're first getting started, there's a lot to do. And yeah, you got to put in some hours. If you're launching something, you got to put in some hours. But when that hustle becomes your day today, it's no longer hustle. It's a burnout like you are fast on the track to not being able to do anything because you will be so exhausted. And so I think it's important to understand how hustle can play a positive role in business, but it's not a constant state of the business. And so much of what's talked about is wake up at 4 am. Don't ever sleep, do this, do that do a million different things. When in reality, what happens is you try to do so many different things that you can't possibly do anything. Well, most people are not productive all day long. They're certainly not productive for like the He's crazy, 16 hour hustle days, most people are productive. Generally around about three hours per day, I can talk about creative productivity. You can do like some admin data entry, whatever stuff, you know, during other times, but when it comes to doing your best work, that's typically a very limited amount of time. Some people listening are going to argue and say, but I've had 16 hour days where I made a website and you know, I just loved it. And I didn't even look up until it was 10 pm or whatever those days happen, but they're not here every day. If you realistically look at your energy and your creative energy every single day, I would say, three, four hours for most people. And so when you leverage that time, into your best work into your billable work into what's going to move you forward, you don't have to hustle constantly because you're putting all of your efforts on what matters in your best time, which means you can get something done in four hours that might otherwise take you eight or 12 because you are using that time productively.

Chris Misterek 10:08
I'd love it if you can just share about what that looks like for you practically from day to day and week to week talk about your schedule and how you keep yourself as efficiently productive as you possibly can.

Erin Flynn 10:23
Yeah, so most days, I typically work about two to four hours, which sounds a little crazy now, because, in the early days, I was working way more. And I do want to disclaim that if I'm launching a new program, or I've got you to know, a client that's launching something sometimes like those days are longer 100%. Again, there are periods of hustle in business. But on my normal day today, I would say probably 80 to 90% of my time I have a two-to-four-hour workday. And what that typically looks like is leveraging my best creative time. So in the morning, that's when my brain is like firing in terms of content or great ideas the best. So I'll get up in the morning and have maybe two hours, really creative content time where I don't open my email, I don't look up social media, I just get these things done and out of my head, and that's when my best work comes out. Then I do like little email, some admin stuff, and then I'll do like, the more tedious business type things, but it's those first hours, that for me are the best. Now other people might be, you know, night owls, they might have their best creative time at different times of the day. But for me, when I get those couple of hours in the morning to do the things that move my business forward, or that make great results for my clients, like in terms of design, first thing, my day is set like after that I am pretty much good to go just a little bit of admin here and there and then I can like leave and go hike or ski or do whatever I want to do.

Chris Misterek 11:56
How did you figure out what your best time of the day was? Because I know a lot of people are probably thinking like, Oh man, I don't know if there's any time of the day, that's my most creative moment. Like, what would it What did that process look like for self-discovery?

Erin Flynn 12:09
It's, I mean, of course, it's different for everybody. But for me, I think it was just finding when I could like to settle in and focus the best. So some of this has to do, it's scientific. It has to do with like decision fatigue and getting worn out throughout the day. And what decision fatigue is, is like, throughout the day, you have to make different decisions like all day long. And so for a lot of people by the end of the day, they're just like they're done. So you know, they've had a long workday, whatever, they get home and dinner, it's just like, way too much to think about because they've been making decisions and using their brain all day long. So for a lot of people, the morning is a really good creative time. Because they haven't yet had to think about all of those things or get distracted by social media or email or things like that. However, other people get through their day, and they're like, Alright, my day is done. And now I have my creative time, I don't have to do anything else except just do what I want to do. So it's just feeling out what works best for you, and trying to fit it into your schedule. Of course, if you've got kids or a day job, things are going to be more difficult. So the best thing you can do is try to reset your brain through going through a walk, taking a shower, how many great ideas do you get in the shower like, like, that's where you know, your brain starts working. Just trying to do some type of a reset, where you're not engaged, anything work-related or distracting, like social media, and your ideas just flow and that will help you reset your brain at any time of the day. If you don't have the luxury of really, you know, choosing those times as much as you know if you're doing a full-time freelance.

Chris Misterek 13:50
So you mentioned something in the most productive part of your day like doing things that you knew help you move your business forward like they were what was pushing the new And I'm sure a lot of people are probably listening who are just getting started, who are asking, what are the things that I can do within my freelance business that are the most helpful and are going to help me gain ground? So how did you figure those things out for yourself? And what type of advice would you give to people who are asking that question?

Erin Flynn 14:19
This is tricky because when you're new, you don't always know what's going to be the best. It does take a lot of experimenting and kind of seeing what works in your business because every business is different. However, what you should focus on is what's billable. You need to make money in your business. If you're not making money and it's not a business, it's a hobby. And you need to get clients at gives you billable work. So marketing and billable work are your top priorities, especially if you're new. So even though you may not know the exact marketing right now that's going to get you the best results. You should be spending time especially if you don't have clients lined up every single day doing some form of marketing, although I would encourage you to stick to one type of marketing for at least three months so that you have measurable results. Because if you're going all over the place, you're not going to be able to measure whether it's Facebook or Twitter or Instagram or you know, cold calling or whatever that's working the best for you. So choose marketing and stick with it for a while and measure the results versus the number of hours that you're putting in. But those are the two top things marketing, billable work, those have got to be your focus when you're brand new. I mean, they're your focus in business all the time, because there are things that don't go away, you have to keep doing them. But as you progress through your business, marketing is going to get so much easier. It's going to, you know, you're going to know what works in terms of your marketing so that you no longer have to be like okay, do I do Facebook, you know, for this quarter and see how that works. You're not been figuring out how Facebook works. So it does get easier and you can spend less And less time doing it, especially as you get known and you get referrals. So it's something that you don't have to spend as much time on in the future, but you're still kinda got to do it because again, you don't have clients, you don't have a business.

Chris Misterek 16:12
Can you talk a little bit about what you found has been the most successful way to market for your own business and how that's changed, maybe throughout different seasons? Because I'm sure a lot of people are listening and going, man, I don't even know where to start. So what have you found personally, that has been like home runs? And what have you tried that maybe didn't, didn't connect as well as you would hope have hoped it to?

Erin Flynn 16:36
So for me, referrals have always been the best source of clients for my business. So I started, didn't ask as many for as many referrals as I probably should have. But early on in my business, I think it was Matthew Kimberly, he had like an article or something about reaching out to people. And I don't remember if it was specifically for marketing your business or if it was just like, make connections. I don't remember because this was, like 2012 or 2013 ish. But the basic premise was, every week you reach out to three people. So you make a list of different people that you think would be good to know you reach out to them. So I used that to get myself booked out, I would email people and say, hey, let's chat or, hey, you're a copywriter, you serve the same audience. Let's refer clients to each other. I made those connections early on. And now I do essentially no marketing. And I have clients coming to me regularly that I have to turn away and send to my students because I just can't take them on. So that has worked out extremely well. For me, I have tried social media marketing in the past. And there's just such a learning curve with it. Plus, you have to show up so much in front of people that I'm not saying it doesn't work, but it's like a whole other industry to have to master on top of running your web design business. So social media marketing, I mean, there are social media marketing companies like it's, it's like SEO is its own thing now like, it's all separate stuff. So if you want to do social media, don't be discouraged by it. But if you need clients to reach out to your network, and you can start with family and friends and getting in touch with them, and asking them for referrals, and that works fantastically, if you're brand new.

Chris Misterek 18:32
So tell me about how long it took from you having to hone in on marketing to now being at a place to where you're, you're turning clients away. How long, how long was that process, and any kind of insight you can give to people who are like, I wish I was in that spot right now.

Erin Flynn 18:51
It took probably about four years to have just a stream of inquiries that I didn't have to worry about where I just went completely hands-off with My marketing, I should also disclaim that, you know, during that time I attended conferences, I made great relationships with people, I became a Genesis recommended developer, I was known enough in the industry. It wasn't just like I was sitting quietly with my business and a tiny little network. I was active, you know, for four years getting out there. And so I think that it's a lot of work to build that up. And I'm not going to lie, it takes a good amount of time. It's not super fast. It's not like posting on Instagram or Facebook, right? However, referrals are much more powerful than any Instagram posts you can ever come up with. Because if Chris recommends me, whoever trusts Chris is going to automatically trust me. So that sale of a website that several thousand dollars, is already made. I don't have to convince this person, right. If I'm posting on social media, I've got to convince them that is the person they should hire and they should spend X amount of money with me. So referrals, although they take longer, they are, I think, a stronger source of getting clients than basically anything else you can do.

Chris Misterek 20:15
I'd love for you to talk about boundaries with clients. You have a podcast episode where you talk about scope creep, and also mentioned in a bunch on your website. Tell me, tell me what that looks like for you.

Erin Flynn 20:29
Well, now it looks like none. Oh my gosh. So in my early days, I needed money. And so here's the thing, if anybody's listening and they're like, Oh, I have you know, these needy clients, I have all of the scope creeps. But don't feel bad about this. This is what we all go through. Like it's just kind of like a rite of passage, honestly, with any freelance business because you don't know what boundaries to set until they've been violated. You don't know what you need to tell your clients until you didn't tell them and it's become an issue. So just understand and like, this is something we all go through. There's nothing wrong with you. It's just a learning experience. But for me, I got pretty early on I have to set office hours because I was having clients call me on like a Sunday morning and asked me questions about their Facebook account, like their personal Facebook account. I'm like, this has nothing to do with what you hired me for six months ago, why are you calling me? And so I had to get clear on office hours and that you know, any work after x date after a project would have to be billed separately. So I set those in my first year of business. So thankfully, working with a lot of clients in that first year, I helped me get some boundaries in place pretty quickly.

Chris Misterek 21:41
I'm just wondering because I think the tendency as a freelancer is to think well if I set boundaries, then I'm gonna piss clients off and they're all gonna leave or I'm not gonna get any others but that I know personally is not the case. And it sounds like that wasn't the case for you either. So talk about that. Were there any people who are like if I can't call you at any hours of the night, then I don't want your client?

Erin Flynn 22:00
No, not at all. I think they started respecting me better when I had office hours because they understood I was a real business. I think before kind of the assumption was was that Erin's like doing this on the side? I don't know when she's available. I'll just call her whenever cuz I don't know. But once I had office hours in place, once I was clear about what has to be paid for, and what doesn't, they started realizing, okay, this is a business like any other. I can't just go to the grocery store at midnight in my town, there probably are people who are listening who have 24-hour grocery stores. I do not so I can't go to the grocery store and buy something when I won't, can't just go get my haircut when I want. Businesses are not typically 24 seven. There are some exceptions. But for the most part, people expect office hours they also expect to have to pay for work. They don't expect to go to the dentist and walk out of there with you having had a root canal and not be billed for it. So I think that it's important to understand that when you Set those boundaries, you are treated better by your clients. And if anybody has a huge issue that you're not available 24 seven, you probably don't want them as a client because they're just always going to be driving you up the wall.

Chris Misterek 23:12
It's almost like a psychological thing. When it comes to prices and boundaries and the limits that you give a client, you know, like, the higher your price, the more the perceived value is, the more they respect your time. The more you send spirit put boundaries on what it is that you are doing or not doing, the more highly they see you and the more they respect you so, you know, it can be kind of a downward spiral if you just keep going down in prices and saying yes and yes to more things that you never initially agreed to. But when you're first getting started, it's so scary to think, 'What if I lose this client' or 'what if they give me a bad review', you know, but I feel like what you're promoting is so important for people to understand that it helps you more than it hurts you,

Erin Flynn 24:04
It does. And on the pricing note, the lower your prices, the more you can micromanage and treat it as like a pixel pusher or an employee, versus charging those premium prices where somebody comes to you and says, This is worth X amount, they must know what they're doing. Now, of course, you should know what you're doing and when you're brand new, maybe adults, right? But once you're like, I've got this, like I understand this process, I'm delivering great work to my clients, you should be charging a good price for that and treated like the expert that you are if you're still you know, getting like their run around and like move this to pixels to the left and I'm changing this for the 50th time. You are not positioning yourself as an expert. You're positioning yourself as their employee, and you're always going to have this relationship where they're, they're the boss, they're the expert, and you're just the one with the technical skill. That's not a very good place to be if you want to make a living.

Chris Misterek 25:04
Yeah, I love that. And, and I think it comes down to, to understanding the relationship between you and the client and having respect for yourself, you know, to understand that when somebody is reaching out to you, they're there. They are looking for your expertise. And so if you acquiesce, then that communicates to them. Maybe you're not the expert that they thought you were. But if you come in and go, Hey, no, here's why. This is a, what I've done is the best decision like it puts you into a place of authority. And you have something that you're doing what's best for the client because even if you're first getting started, you've probably spent more time working on web design or design or whatever development then the client coming to you. And so making sure that every step of the way you're communicating I'm the expert and not being demanding or, you know, overbearing, but at the same time, staying standing your ground and knowing how to communicate the story of like, this is what's best for you, I'm doing what's best for you.

Erin Flynn 26:12
Totally. And I think that's where things get tricky, especially like in the web design world. And with developers too, because when people say they want a website, they want to tell you what the website should be, you're just the technical person putting it together, right? And so you might know what's best in terms of, you know, the right plugins to use or the right you know, a platform to use. But they're going to dictate every single thing that goes on the website when chances are, you know, better what will work on their website than they do. So when I always tell my students, you're not selling a website anymore, you're selling a solution to your client's problems. The website is just part of that. And when you communicate that you got clients who are willing to pay a lot more and they're willing To listen to your expertise, because you're not building them a website, you're offering them a solution to their problem. And that's what they truly want. And so it's just this difference in like how you position yourself, as either I'm making a website or I'm solving your problem.

Chris Misterek 27:16
Talk about maybe some hard situations where you've gone back and forth with a client, and they are just not having a decision that you've made. What do you do at that moment? Do you say, okay, that's fine, we'll I just want to get this thing done, or do you keep pushing? Like, what does that look like for you? What would you communicate to somebody who's struggling with that?

Erin Flynn 27:37
So in the past, when I was newer, I would typically let the client walk all over me. And that's how you ended up with like these horrible, horrible websites that you don't even want to put your name on. Right? But, you know, there comes a time where you're just like, they're not seeing you as an expert. And you can only fight so much, right? It's not worth your time to fight more. And so in the past, I would kind of give up But after repositioning myself after understanding that I was the expert here, I changed how I present things to clients anyhow, I used to give them, here's a whole bunch of different mock-ups. Choose one, and then we'll revise it like 50 times, right? That's how we all start, which is fine. But now what I do is I'm like, here is what it should look like one option, and I'm going to walk you through why. And I get maybe teeny tiny revision requests most of the time, zero because they understand why I've done what I've done. And I presented them with what I think is the best answer to their problem. I haven't said here are a whole bunch of maybe solutions. You pick one and we'll go from there. Maybe it'll work. I said this is it. This is why and you know, at the most we typically have like a copy change, not even a design change.

Chris Misterek 28:50
Yeah. I love that. And again, it goes back to communicating your confidence in your expertise. You know, like, if I get You 20 options that communicate, I'm not sure about my ability to give you what you need. And so at that point, it sets the client on the offense and they start going, Okay, what else about this? Do I not like, versus like, here's what it is. And, you know, let you know, this is what I think we should go in. So. So I love that mentality. You mentioned a lot on your website, the idea of how success looks different for different people. And I and I think that's important because being a freelancer, in a lot of ways it can be super discouraging, you know, especially when you're first getting started. You get more no's than you get any yeses. And sometimes a no looks like people just don't get back to you. And so how do you define success or how would you encourage somebody to look at What a successful season of web design would look like for them.

Erin Flynn 30:03
Here's, here's the magical ideal of success in my world, which may or may not be what is somebody else's. But for me, it's making enough money to live the life that I want. It's working on projects that I love, doing, like ones that I'm excited about working on clients that I love working with, and it's having enough free time again to like, do what I want to do, because, to me, we've already talked about like, I'm not like the Hustle, Hustle, Hustle all the time person. I don't want to make millions of dollars and never enjoy my life. I would rather make a good reasonable comfortable amount of money, but I have the free time to go do what I want. And so for other people that might look different for me, they might not ski you know, in the mornings, they might spend time with their kids. They might be a stay at home parent, they might have something else they're passionate about maybe volunteering or some other hobby. They might you know, just have a different view of what that is. But I think what it comes down to is having the freedom both monetarily and timewise. To enjoy your life. That's the most important thing to me. And I think it should be for everyone. There will be some people who disagree and then enjoying the projects that you work on. You don't want to hate what you do. And yeah, it's a job sometimes you're not always super thrilled that happens. It's a business, right? We as much as we want to love our business 24 seven, there are rough days there are you know, there are taxes, there's stuff we don't like doing. But if you can enjoy it, you know, 70 80% of the time, I think you're doing well.

Chris Misterek 31:39
I wonder if you would have any, any simple tips or tricks that you found for people who are just getting started who are trying to find clients or streamline their workflow or even like you've mentioned before, like prioritize their day? What advice would you have for somebody?

Erin Flynn 31:58
All right, so for finding clients My best advice is to figure out who you help and how you help them first. So when I mean talking about like a niche, I don't mean you're going to help doctors, nutritionist, I mean you're going to help some group of people that has a problem so it's more something like course creators or small business like small businesses that you know need to get local clients and right. So that's the problem and when you address the problem instead of like an industry it becomes much more clear. Then you tell everyone you know what you're doing. And I know how annoying it is when we've got like Stacey from high school being like hey, do you want lip gloss or leggings or whatever all over Facebook right? Gets annoying, but we know that Stacy selling lip gloss and leggings we know it. So we have to toot our own horn a little bit more and say I offer websites for course creators or I can help local businesses get more traffic in the door right? When we solve those problems, people Know what we do and they can refer others to us or they can hire us because it's much more clear than I make websites. Okay, great. What does that do for me? I don't know. Right. So that's the first thing you got to do is you've got to get clear on who you help and how you help them and tell everybody about it. And then when it comes to systems, stop reinventing the wheel every single time once you know the problem you're solving, come up with the clear process on every website that you create, so that you can follow it you know, how long it takes, you know, what should be expected each part of the project, you understand what's involved. That way you can price correctly, you can schedule correctly, and your clients always know what's going on. So they don't think that you've just disappeared and got angry because you have a clear process outlined for them. So again, if you don't have if you're not booked out if you don't know where your next client is coming from marketing has got to be part of your every single day. I know it's uncomfortable. I know it sucks. I know we don't like doing it, but it gets so much easier. When you start practicing it, so that can look, you know, totally different to different people. But that could be emailing people and saying, Hey, I see that you're a copywriter who serves the same audience, let's get virtual coffee, right? If they're not local, so let's just connect, you don't have to go into this with we have to refer clients to each other. But you're just making a connection that now that copywriter knows, okay, Erin makes websites for course creators. All right. So if I need a course creator, when I'm doing copy for, and she needs some website help, I can send her to Erin, right? You're just making these connections and other days that might look like your social media platform of choice. So maybe you find that LinkedIn is great for who you want to attract. So you spend time on LinkedIn. And that's fine. But you've got to be consistent with whatever marketing that you're doing. And you have to make time for that every day. And I promise it gets easier.

Chris Misterek 34:57
Great advice, and I can't thank you enough for being on the show and sharing the wisdom that you have. Can you tell us one more time how somebody might get connected with you?

Erin Flynn 35:07
Yeah, my main website is just ErinFlynn.com. I've got a podcast, I got links to all my social media and everything there if you want to follow me. And if you're interested in my course, for web designers, it's a streamlinedesignprofit.com. Awesome.

Chris Misterek 35:19
Well, I'd love to have you on again sometime in the future. Until then, please go visit the erinflynn.com site. Thank you so much, Erin. Appreciate it.

Erin Flynn 35:26
Thanks so much, Chris.

Chris Misterek 35:28
Wow, what great insight, I hope that was encouraging to you, I hope that you saw in Erin's journey, the ability to do something like that yourself. And the truth is, is you don't have to hustle and grind and kill yourself trying to reach levels of success and your business like everybody is talking about right now. You can do it in a way that is sustainable, and that you don't have to break your back doing so. Take what she had to say and learn from it. implement it in your business. Whether You're just getting started or if you've been doing this for a long time as a web designer or web developer, whatever it is that you're doing, and let me know about it. Let me know about the success that you are getting from listening to these amazing guests next week. We have another episode coming out with an amazing person. And his name is Lee Blue. I can't keep it a secret from you. You don't have to wait to find out Lee Blue. If you want to look him up. He runs a program called double stack where he is teaching people how to make more money than they thought possible as web developers. You're not gonna want to miss it. It's coming up quicker than you thought. I can't wait to see you next Tuesday.

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